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Killing SATA hard drives
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You are currently in Hardware, Internet, Networking, Comms and Security
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Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:33 pm Reply and quote this post
Hey guys.  A couple of days ago, I went and OC'd my computer (bumped the FSB up to 215 as usual) and my computer wouldn't boot into windows (on RAID-0 SATA 80GB drives).  It would get to random parts (but ususually 1/2 way though the windows XP scroling  bar) and then just freeze.  The hard drive light would stay on, but nothing was happening.

After letting it sit for a few hours (and returing to stock speeds) I attempted to boot again after removing a recently installed IDE drive.  Bam... windows boots problem solved right?  No...

When I later restarted, the computer, again, would not boot.  So I plug in the IDE drive, and install windows XP on it.  It installs fine, and boots to windows.  I install drivers and directx and reboot, minus the booting part.

It got stuck in the same way.  I un-plug the IDE drive, and boot up my Ultimate Boot CD (windows xp on CD with tons of tweaks) and windows runs fine off of the CD.  No issues, even in heavy stress testing.

Ok... so its not the PSU as previously suspected, nor is it the RAM.

Somehow, I get it to boot again off of the SATA hard drives.   I try to watch some movies that I have on my hard drive and they play for a little while (3-5 min), then stop with the hard drive light full-on. After 5-20 seconds, the movie would continue to play.  The computer is responsive for everything that is cached to memory.  Task manager reveals ~1% CPU usage, and no strange tasks running.

I reboot, and the dang thing wont boot again!  At this point I am PISSED OFF.  I go to bed.

This morning I stip the thing out, swap out SATA cables disconnect everything that is non-essential, still no boot.  I have the bright idea to un-hook my SATA drives and test with just the IDE drive. Boots first try, and fast.

Ok, if you have read all that...

Do you think I could have killed my drives (or corrupted them) by overclocking in such a mild manner and at a speed that I have used many times before?

Any input anyone has is appreciated.

Contributed by Greg M., iVirtua Ultimate Contributor
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Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:39 pm Reply and quote this post
First of all, what are you using RAID-0 for?
Contributed by KoolDrew, iVirtua Ultimate Contributor
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Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:29 pm Reply and quote this post
Speed and space... very little on that computer is very important.  Just all of my games and current projects.  Everything important is in 2 locations, be it on the web and my comptuer or 2 different computers.
Contributed by Greg M., iVirtua Ultimate Contributor
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Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:54 pm Reply and quote this post
Your motherboard must not have a SATA bus lock to prevent the drives from burning out.
Contributed by Predator, Guest
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Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:13 pm Reply and quote this post
For typical desktop applications there will be no real-world performance difference and RAID-0 is bad for seek times since each drive has to seek to their portion of the data.  This is bad for the OS with many small files and the pagefile which is never read or written to in buffers larger then 64KB.  RAID-0 only increases your sequential transfer rate, which for most things won't increase performance much, if at all.

RAID-0 also significantly reduces reliability.  The failure of ANY disk will result in the complete loss of all data on the array.  The largest cause of array failure with larger RAID-0 arrays is a short-term glitch in the controller, cable or drive which can cause the drive to be struck from the array, resulting in the loss of data.  If you have a single drive, the system would retry a few times, abort the request, and probably get valid data on the next read.

With basically no performance increase for the majority of things out there, significantly increased failure rate, increased noise output, and increased load on the PSU etc. RAID-0 is basically a dumb move with a insignificant subset of exceptions.

Here is some more proof if you don't want to take my word for it.

Quote:
The enthusiasm of the power user community combined with the marketing apparatus of firms catering to such crowds has led to an extraordinarily erroneous belief that striping data across two or more drives yields significant performance benefits for the majority of non-server uses. This could not be farther from the truth! Non-server use, even in heavy multitasking situations, generates lower-depth, highly-localized access patterns where read-ahead and write-back strategies dominate. Theory has told those willing to listen that striping does not yield significant performance benefits. Some time ago, a controlled, empirical test backed what theory suggested. Doubts still lingered- irrationally, many believed that results would somehow be different if the array was based off of an SATA or SCSI interface. As shown above, the results are the same. Save your time, money and data- leave RAID for the servers!

-- Read More!


Quote:
If you haven't gotten the hint by now, we'll spell it out for you: there is no place, and no need for a RAID-0 array on a desktop computer. The real world performance increases are negligible at best and the reduction in reliability, thanks to a halving of the mean time between failure, makes RAID-0 far from worth it on the desktop.

-- Read More!


There are two conclusions for you from two reputable review sites that basically say the same thing about RAID-0.


Last edited by KoolDrew on Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

Contributed by KoolDrew, iVirtua Ultimate Contributor
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Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:28 am Reply and quote this post
Well you can say the same thing for SLI.

I like my RAID-0 because I do alot of everything.  It betters my load times in games, it makes my video editing and capturing MUCH faster, and I do a lot of file moving, and it helps a lot in that.

If RAID-0 is so worthless, why do SO many smart people with SUPER expensive computers use it?

Andand tech didn't include one video or file transfer/conversion benchmark.  This is where RAID-0 shines.


Last edited by Greg M. on Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:36 am; edited 1 time in total

Contributed by Greg M., iVirtua Ultimate Contributor
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Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:37 am Reply and quote this post
Quote:
Well you can say the same thing for SLI.


Um, no you can't.  SLI actually offers a performance advantage.  Whether or not it is worth it depends.

Quote:
If RAID-0 is so worthless, why do SO many smart people with SUPER expensive computers use it?


Actually it is the exact opposite.  So many dumb n00bs use RAID-0 thinking it will give them a performance advantage when it is not the case.

It is obvious that you hosed the RAID-0 array.  You really need to dump RAID-0 if you have not already.


Last edited by KoolDrew on Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:38 am; edited 1 time in total

Contributed by KoolDrew, iVirtua Ultimate Contributor
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Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:42 am Reply and quote this post
I don't think the array is bad.  It has something to do with either the controler or windows, as I can boot off of my IDE drive and use the array all day long with no issues.
Contributed by Greg M., iVirtua Ultimate Contributor
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Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:33 pm Reply and quote this post
Run the manufactures diagnostic test on the drive.  Also could you list all your PC parts?
Contributed by KoolDrew, iVirtua Ultimate Contributor
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Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:35 pm Reply and quote this post
Look at his signature.

Last edited by Predator on Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

Contributed by Predator, Guest
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Tue Sep 06, 2005 6:39 am Reply and quote this post
Antec 550 watt
Aspire X-Navigator
FX-55
Asus A8N-SLI (BIOS 1007)
Corsair XMS 3200 (Dual Channel)
RAID-0 80GB Segate 7200.7's on nvidia SATA

And I realize my BIOS is old...

Ya know...
I just thought of this...

I think that my windows partition is bad.  That would make sense as I can use the other partitions fine with no issues, but Windows doesn't work (may be a virus I guess).  This is just so strange.


Last edited by Greg M. on Tue Sep 06, 2005 6:40 am; edited 1 time in total

Contributed by Greg M., iVirtua Ultimate Contributor
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Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:09 am Reply and quote this post
i killed 8 hard drives this last year from overclocking with sata hard drives. as it turns out none of the buss locks worked 100%. tried 8 boards. MSI , gigabyte , Asus , Abit . As a result i no longer extreme overclock my CPU . I run a 230x11x5 now and its just fine. Start geting into 260 to 280 FSB and start frying HDD unless your running a IDE drive.
Contributed by PCGEEK, iVirtua Ultimate Contributor
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