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Schools and Computers
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You are currently in The Great Debates!
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Mon May 01, 2006 9:41 am Reply and quote this post
Schools and colleges have a growing problem with renewing their computer equipment, a report says.

The government computer agency for education systems, Becta, says the number of computers has increased.

But many are getting old, they are not being renewed fast enough, and about half of schools do not even have a replacement policy.

The growing number of further education students means computer provision in colleges actually got worse last year.

The Becta annual review, to be published next week, says there has been "notable accelerated progress" in the way schools are using computers in teaching and learning.

"It is now becoming the norm, for example, that teachers prepare lessons using online resources."

The ratio of pupils to computers has continued to fall, so that in 2005 there was one computer for every 6.1 primary school pupils on average and one for every 3.7 secondary school pupils.

Bandwidth questions

More schools have interactive whiteboards, often linked to the internet.

But there are downsides to all of this.

Many schools are unclear how best to use their increased internet bandwidth.

Teachers' satisfaction with the "fitness for purpose" of desktop computers has fallen slightly.

"Schools' computer stocks have increased over time, producing a management issue of purchase, disposal and re-use of resources," Becta says.

"Computers over three years old contribute significantly to the overall ratios of machines to pupils."

'Management issue'

More than a third of primary schools and two-thirds of secondary schools had spare workstations to replace stolen or broken ones.

"However, 56\0f primary and 44\0f secondary schools did not have a policy in place for replacement of workstations in the school.

"Of those who did have a policy, 32\0f primary and 44\0f secondary intended to replace up to 25\0f their computer stock within the next five years.

"It appears highly unlikely that all stock will be replaced before it exceeds the commonly accepted target three-year life span."

Further education

As in schools, the computer to pupils ratio improved in sixth form colleges, but in general further education colleges it got worse.

"Demand for internet access continued to outpace college capability in around one third of colleges," the report says.

"Unfortunately this represents a growing trend."

Not only were colleges struggling because they had more students, but learners' expectations had also risen.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4960586.stm

Yet colleges were "much less likely" than the year before to be replacing computers on a three-year cycle - and of those that were, about half were still using older Pentium I and II machines.

Standards

Becta says there is "growing evidence" of "a positive, if small" impact on attainment.

Likewise there are signs linking the use of the technology in lessons to improved standards, but this is "not unambiguous".

It says it is clear that technology has the potential to improve the efficiency of management and administration.

But this potential is not being realised - in many schools there is still no connection between the teaching and administrative computer systems.

And there are growing "digital divides". One involves those young people who have computers at home and those who do not.

The other is between increasingly tech-savvy youngsters, and their perceptions of their teachers' competence and confidence.

Contributed by Editorial Team, Executive Management Team
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Thu May 25, 2006 9:33 pm Reply and quote this post
I have to agree even though I am no longer in school to see the truth about technology I know that even in the work place technology is out dated.  Theres quite a few places where ive been that are still using windows 98.  even when I was in school technology seemed to change slowly.   But  I belive that now things are getting better with some schools. I guess Its the matter of fact on how schools spend money and how things change over the years. In fact it is now very rare that there isn't at least one computer in every home that has kids. Unless you happen to be either very poor or can't afford it. Its the truth computers are everywhere get used to it or fall way behind the times.
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Thu May 25, 2006 11:41 pm Reply and quote this post
To be honest, most schools don't even use computers over here. There is no need, since they provocated the use of pen over the keyboard. Keyboard is proven to be quite harmful to one's grammar in the longer run, and I'm not referring to just l33t speak.

Not to mention, the use of computers gives pupils the chance not to do anything in their head; they can just use the computer! Which means bad for their brains in the longer run, as that tv-show where British kids were forced to do some basic 3rd grade math in their head. Guess how many failed.

Pentiums are a bit outdate yes, but by no means should the computers be the newest bling from the bling, a computer which you can use to access internet, some programs and teacher functions is more than enough. It's just silly to spend thousands and thousands of euros just to upgrade computers, which are completely capable doing their designed purpose as it is.

(Internet should be everywhere though!)

Contributed by Jim9137, iVirtua Expressed Contributor
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Fri May 26, 2006 10:54 am Reply and quote this post
I must agree, Internet should indeed be everywhere, however, the use of ICT in everyday life s growing at a massive rate, there is more need for ICT in schools than ever before. We used to have Windows 98 Computers in our school, and when they upgraded to XP, they could have the most up to date programs. They now have Data Projectors in every room, I must say, they are underused, but in the UK they are increasing the teaching of ICT and introcuding an ICT SAT (National Exam for Year 9's) along wth English, Maths and Science. ICT can be applied to nearly everything we do, and is not only an invaluable skill, but a core skill too.

The Comuters in schools should run the same system in Workplaces, and where the student would apply their skills. It is not very useful to have an outdated system, where they become fluent using it, and then when they turn up at their workplace, or leave school, are confrunted by a comletely new system.

As for using Computers to solve maths, and to design things, we dont still use Cave Painting and an Abacus do we?
I think computers in the future won't be an alternative,  but a necessity.

Contributed by Editorial Team, Executive Management Team
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Fri May 26, 2006 11:30 am Reply and quote this post
In here, kids still write to paper and teaches uses chalkboards. Computers are only used for relevant subjects and data gathering, sometimes for leisure. That's all. Finland is also rated in the recent PISA research as one of the tops in the education, so computers are far from necessity. Not to mention they aren't very encouraging in encouraging people to use their brains, why bother learning grammar when Word does it for you! Which is one reason some teachers dislike using them in education.

Proficiency in computers can be attained later, and most of the time the pupils already know more about the computers than the teachers themselves. So it's no problem to learn the ropes in the later higher grade schools/colleges/universities/vocational schools/what have you, not to mention work places usually have a habit of giving some tutoring in case there is need. There is also that computer driver's license, not sure it's name over Britain, which is designed exactly for the purpose of showing that this man knows how to use computer and all the relevant programs.

When you're still in the lower level schools, there really isn't a huge need to use computer yet. It might change, but I doubt it. The basics of language, math and whatnot, will not change so dramatically that it would necessisate the use of computers outside demonstration purposes.

Contributed by Jim9137, iVirtua Expressed Contributor
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Fri May 26, 2006 9:44 pm Reply and quote this post
The truth is  computer use is one of the skills needed for being sucessful in the job market at least hear in the USA. Back when I was in school we started using computers as early as middleschool age but now in alot of places  theres pc in every classroom even in elementery schools. I don't know what the technology is like for other countries but Im guessing that computer use will be or is widespread. I belive in my opinion that it important to keep up with current technologies in schools and in the workplace. I reccomend at least a computer with 2.1ghz cpu 512mb ram and a decent agp graphics card such as a raedon 9550 or a Geforcefx something just to get buy. I also belive that the computer is the way of the future now and forthcoming. anyone else got anything to add?
Contributed by Thomas Lohse, iVirtua Ultimate Contributor
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Sat May 27, 2006 1:10 am Reply and quote this post
So you want all that power... exactly for what? Most education programs run fine enough in a pentium, you can surf the net in a pentium, you can do all the things one could humanly imagine doing in school, on a pentium. Except play games, but that's not an education viewpoint at all. Videocards aren't any kind of requirement for any kind of internet browsing either...

Only thing I could imagine, is digital arts. But what kind of schools teach that, and didn't have powerful computers already?

They do teach the use of computers here, throughout the very first grades in elementary school all the way up to higher-level education facilities. I'd be surprised if you could find someone who hadn't touched a computer here, since it's part of the educational program to teach kids how to use computers. Yeah, they will be a bigger part in the future, but I severely doubt they'll replace paper with computer screen until there are better, less eyestraining monitors. At which point any kind of power monster is depracated, as well.

Jobmarkets? Yeah, they like people with computer savyness, especially the engineer and other kinds. But a simple cleaner or a car mechanic wouldn't need to know a lot about computers, so it's not as far as you think. They're coming alright, but it'll be a decade away.

Contributed by Jim9137, iVirtua Expressed Contributor
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Sat May 27, 2006 1:43 am Reply and quote this post
I work with Computers and Consoles ,and must agree with Jim     ,my son is nearly fifteen and well into his schooling he is learning the use of Microsoft office,and is  extracting info from the net to bolster his revision,So why would you need to upgrade the schools  equipment,the most basic Pc is easily good enough to run the applications he needs.

We live in such a throw away society, I also phoned my Sons school teacher up the other day for a progress report,and she could not tell me as she did not have her laptop with her,in my day teachers carried folders ,times are changing



Last edited by 800fsbgang on Tue May 30, 2006 1:38 am; edited 2 times in total

Contributed by 800fsbgang, iVirtua Ultimate Contributor
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Mon May 29, 2006 2:05 pm Reply and quote this post
Yep things are changing all right and moving fast. In some schools and universities  I belive they are starting to give every student a laptop computer that can be exchanged every new school year. Case in point technology is always changing it is up to the school and the students and the parents how they best keep up with the changes. Not everyone needs upgrades but It would be nice if more and more places would keep up.
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Tue May 30, 2006 1:19 am Reply and quote this post
yeh at the end of the day, all the massively long essays that one must write in school and university exams are hand-written - students should not build up too much of a dependance on computers at school. ive learnt virtually all of my IT skills from my own personal involvement in technology - i.e. ive grown up using it at home. School has never really taught me much about it.
Contributed by Andy, Editorial, Marketing & Services Team
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Tue May 30, 2006 10:02 am Reply and quote this post
Staying up with technology seems like a huge waste of money and resources which could be used far more better in the actual education. Having the latest tech on hand doesn't mean it's any useful in the actual purpose. Such as, learning things. I'd rather see the money spent on the school envinronment if one must waste money, instead on computers. Enjoying being at school -> better results.
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Tue May 30, 2006 10:19 am Reply and quote this post
I agree with you on some points Jim. I think that technology is important however I still think that education should still use pen and paper ins some classes. When you go into schools now 99.9% of lessons are based around computers even P.E (Physical Education) now use computers in some of their classes.

I think that the goverment should send more money on building more higher quaility schools and educational establisments rather than ICT and computers.

Contributed by applet1, Guest
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Tue May 30, 2006 11:28 am Reply and quote this post
Jim9137 wrote:
Staying up with technology seems like a huge waste of money and resources which could be used far more better in the actual education. Having the latest tech on hand doesn't mean it's any useful in the actual purpose. Such as, learning things. I'd rather see the money spent on the school envinronment if one must waste money, instead on computers. Enjoying being at school -> better results.


Finally Jim talks some sense lol

Contributed by 800fsbgang, iVirtua Ultimate Contributor
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Tue May 30, 2006 12:14 pm Reply and quote this post
Computers are also a waste of time in a lot of respects, I mean, most people when confronted with a computer room will play on flash games, or sit and do nothing, and also, all sit down exams have to be done with pen and paper, I'm not even going to mention plagiarism and copyright infringement. Quote Jim...
Quote:
Having the latest tech on hand doesn't mean it's any useful in the actual purpose. Such as, learning things.
and also, teacher's laptops are always breaking down, or data is accidentally deleted and not backed up.

The learning environments should indeed be improved and given more priority; schools should have air conditioning, and wide corridors, lockers and a clean environment.

Most people don't have the latest Office 2003 at home, and when you write something on Word 2000, you simply cannot open it; this is just one example of spending hundreds of pounds on a site licence for 2003? Also those Interactive Whiteboards are annoying to stare at, and a conventional whiteboard is so much easier to use, and sometimes more effective, I think upgrades are only needed where necessary, Microsoft FrontPage does an excellent job for doing the simple pages right up to A level and GNVQ, the Expensive features of Dreamweaver are simply not even touched.

I'm not sure if
Quote:
99.9% of lessons are based around computers
but it’s certainly getting that way, I guess the education system has been caught up in the computer trends, a constant desire to upgrade. Maybe a solution to this would be a Windows Education system, that doesn’t go out of date, works on lower specs, but regular free updates are brought out and it is supported for many years after release. Maybe schools should use bespoke systems similar to the industry standards, but "Educational Editions", RM (www.rm.com) already provide special anti-vandal school computers, with less eye straining TFT monitors, and really, as the world advances, I have to come to the conclusion, that in reality schools do need computers to keep up with the world around it. The introduction of calculator's could have been seen as the same, and also as for Grammar teachings, and Spell Checkers, these will become more and more accepted in Schools.

Finally, teaching from an early age on computers would lead to a more computer literate generation, on degree courses not, there are still people who can’t use a computer well, and who require the use of computers for Photography for instance. In addition, before I spark off another debate, the future of photography IS digital, my dad is a photographer and is course leader on a Photography Degree course, and they do not have darkrooms anymore.

What it requires is careful investment in the right places, new schools with clean, open, safe environments, with bespoke IT systems (including software), and chosen with economy as a consideration as I mentioned earlier. This could even reduce unemployment, crime, and above all education.

The World is changing, and we have to learn to accept it and move on.

Contributed by Editorial Team, Executive Management Team
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Tue May 30, 2006 2:28 pm Reply and quote this post
I'm sure you two above that poster above me confused my words, which I find not really surprising.

Over here, 0.01% lessons involve computer in some way, except the computer science lessons. PE? Let me laugh. I understand it is different over Britain, where computers are quickly taking over more traditional means of teaching, but how many of you saw that progamme where those kids were thrown to 19th century school? Without calculators, computers or the like? And then they got 3rd grade test. Some of the failed, most of them did horribly.

Tratidional teaching methods encourage own thinking, which is something computers do not. Not that they are any inferior things or anything, or less important parts of the society, I'm just saying their place in school is not justified yet. And computer screen is really annoying to stare at, honestly.

Contributed by Jim9137, iVirtua Expressed Contributor
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